How to Grow Your Shop in a Small Town // Chris Fleniken of Real Graphics / Better Sign Shop

00:00:00Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Learn how to build a better sign and print shop from a few crusty sign guys who've made more mistakes than they care to admit. Conversations and advice on pricing, sales, marketing, [00:00:15] workflow, growth, and more. You are listening to The Better Sign Shop podcast with your hosts, Peter COIs, Michael O'Reilly, and Bryant Gillespie.

00:00:30

00:00:34Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Before we jump into the episode, I'd like to give a shout out to our sponsor, GCI Digital Imaging Grand Format Printer to the Trade. We talk a lot about outsourcing on the [00:00:45] podcast and the importance of. Good partners and gci Digital Imaging is a good partner to have owner TJ bak and his team focus on providing killer customer service just the way grandmother used to make it.

00:01:00 interested in learning their approach to business, hop back into the archives to episode nine where the guys and I interview TJ about customer experience. So if you're looking for a high quality trade printer for banners, wraps, and [00:01:15] other printed graphics that your customers throw at you, check out GCI Digital [email protected].

00:01:30 podcast with me, as always, the sign shop Yoda, wearing the baby Yoda helmet or hat. Got Peter Caris.

00:01:39Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: How are you, Pete? Pretty good. Pretty good. I'm happy that no [00:01:45] shave November is over. At the filming at the time of this podcast. It is now December 1st.

00:02:00 so I am now a whopping 3,

00:02:04Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: 8 38. Oh, congrats. Dude. I didn't even know it was your birthday. I feel like I

00:02:09Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: know every, everybody wishes me a happy birthday on Facebook.

00:02:15 Chris did. But, but you, I,

00:02:17Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: but you

00:02:17Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: but me. Well, my main squeeze

00:02:20Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: forgot it's birthday. What a jerk. What a jerk Mike did.

00:02:24Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: Sorry, dude. Mi Mike did. Sorry, dude. Mike's not here, but he, I'll give him props. He was like, [00:02:30] happy birthday man. Appreciate you. Yeah.

00:02:32Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: I'm sorry dude. I apologize.

00:02:35Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: you're knee, you're knee deep in like every little bit of project, so I get it. You'll have a, you get a pass

00:02:40Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: and, and flu season too. So, yeah, we're [00:02:45] missing the sign burrito. The chi changa. What? It's not as fun when he is not here to do the nicknames, but I know we had, um, cr Hey, what was the, what was the one that Chris gave him?

00:02:59Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: That was a good [00:03:00] one. I don't know, man. I don't know. Isn't he like the Sign Shop general? The sign The sign general?

00:03:05Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: Yeah. I,

00:03:07Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: I, listen, we just need to stick to something between you and I. We just need to like, we need to make him like a name plaque for Christmas. [00:03:15] Like that's it.

00:03:23Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: I like the Jimmy Chaga for sure. Crusty on the outside. Fluffy on the inside. . [00:03:30]

00:03:30Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: Love it. Love it.

00:03:31Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Updates from me, man. I've been at home with my wife sick all week, and I, I gotta say I've got a new found respect for everything that she does on a daily basis.[00:03:45]

00:04:00 doing all that and try to. Take care of the kids and your wife and I still have some type of involvement in work is extremely difficult, and she does it every single day.

00:04:15 have to give a shout out to my wife. I hope you feel better by the time this is released. If not, we're gonna have a problem. But I, you're amazing. Um,

00:04:25Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: ah, you are amazing. You are, you're all amazing. [00:04:30] You're all amazing. Your girls are amazing. You're amazing. You, you're a very generous guy.

00:04:40Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: you go. Behind every good man, great woman is [00:04:45] a great. Yeah, so what are we talking about today? We are talking about a question that has come up over and over again from a lot of our owners that we've talked to, either in our Facebook community for [00:05:00] sign trap, owners, plug plug, or on some of our mastermind calls, which is, Hey, I am in a small town, small-ish town.

00:05:15 And we've got a special guest joining us today, one of my best friends in the whole state of Texas. Probably my best friend in the state of Texas, Chris Flynn. Chris runs real graphics and they have bought up just [00:05:30] about every other printing and signed business in their small town of Lufkin, Texas.

00:05:45 so we're back from technical difficulties. We've got my man Chris Flynn from Rio Graphics in Lufkin, Texas joining us. Uh, as I mentioned, Chris is probably my favorite dude in the state of Texas, and I know there's a ton of dudes [00:06:00] down there.

00:06:00Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: Good to be here. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. It's gonna be a lot of

00:06:04Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, Chris. All right, man. So what's the origin story? Like, give us, give us the real graphics story because every time I talk to you, [00:06:15] you've bought another business or you've expanded or no, you've, you've got all these different things going on.

00:06:25Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: like, we're we still hover around 25 people? Cause we, we'll get up [00:06:30] there sometimes, but I think 25 is a good average. Sometimes we might peak out, but 28 or so. Yeah, happy to share. So, uh, I love hearing in the group all these comments about how people stumbled into the sign business.

00:06:45 My story's kind of similar along par with that as far as, you know, I was planning do, do youth ministry work. I had been impacted by a great youth pastor growing up, and I was like, man, that's what I wanna do. Have fun with teenagers, hang out and have fun on forever. And, and that's what I kinda started out [00:07:00] doing.

00:07:15 way to. Making things happen.

00:07:30 magic words to me one time. He said, Hey, how much would you charge me to design a poster, an event poster for my group and print it for me?

00:07:45 could do this for other people, but it never was an idea of like, I have a business one day. You know, it just was, and it just happened. And so my passions kind of just tweaked that way, you know, just enjoyed working with customers on projects and what, you know, and in my first year, [00:08:00] I was just, you know, side hustling and doing this and that and, and they would, you know, throw the burden on me of like, Hey, here's the, here's what I want.

00:08:15 of it. And that's kind of, how much did you earn that first year? Yeah. Not enough to stay afloat, , you know? Uh, but yeah, so I like throw like a number

00:08:24Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: out at me.

00:08:25Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: clue. There was no books involved. It was like, write that check lit [00:08:30] and uh, you know, you got cat, you know, it was really simple. But that really did just start like this new excite my cited passion. And so within that year, kind of was starting a business and luckily I put the name real graphics on it because I was gonna do like real [00:08:45] design and a.

00:09:00 poster printer that was an antique at the time.

00:09:15 3005 CP printer that was 10 or 12 years old, used many times before me. And, uh, anyway, but that kind of helped me get limping along. At least I could had something in the office to hit print on.

00:09:30 nowadays, like fast forward, we do a lot of stuff in-house, but it comes from those pain points that I had of outsourcing and just relying on someone else. And not that, I mean great vendors is what got me here, but just. That was what it was all about.

00:09:45 just had a good time doing that. And then I, I would've hustled it along too. I had a day job for a year working at our local newspaper. I talked him into hiring me with this much design experience and, uh, I enjoyed, I mean, it was making like newspaper ads and it wasn't that exciting, but it [00:10:00] was really good practice and it got me a little, like fast and quick, but I would like plan meetings at my office at my lunch break.

00:10:15 down the street to my little design shop office where I had, you know, a little desk and a little printer in the corner. That was it. And, uh, but it was, that's kinda how I got started that first year.

00:10:30 done. But I was. Shirt maker, the signed printer, you know, I just, vinyl cutters, you know, all that. Do it all guy Spanish show for the first while and then, um, but yeah, fast forward down the road, man.

00:10:45 along, wanted to learn some stuff, jumped in. Uh, eventually I paid him a little something every week. Um, eventually I got an email from a girl that was a design student and, um, wanted to get some experience. So this was 2010 and I'm like, man, I got a lot of work going on, a lot of different projects at that [00:11:00] time.

00:11:15 this and Vector and, you know, paths welded together, fonts out outlined.

00:11:30 talented designer. Um, by the end of the summer, she's fallen in love with me and ended up marrying this girl. So I met my wife, uh, in the business. Um, so that was really amazing.

00:11:45 good design, creativity, um, overdelivering customers, what they kinda come in expecting or asking for, um, if we can wow 'em with the design, they're hook, they're gonna love getting the sign or whatever it be.

00:12:00 Yeah.

00:12:00Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: If, if we play this back for m or is she gonna be mad that you called her Desperate.

00:12:05Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: No, I mean, desperate for some work. She said No, I, I'm just picking man. Yeah, no, she, she, she said, she's like, she sent out all these emails [00:12:15] and like no one emailed her back and I was the only person to respond and say like, yeah, you could come and get some experience here.

00:12:30 Have to teach along the way. You know, I didn't expect for her to have such a great grasp on everything. So it was really, really great.

00:12:45 people started following in my lap, basically like for great, talented people. Like another great designer came in, joined the team.

00:13:00 vinyl. So we figured a lot of stuff out in those early years, which was really fun and exciting, but exhausting at the same time.

00:13:15 do more. Eventually we'd maxed out our little 2200 square foot space. Grew into and there was no more space to grow into in that building.

00:13:30 15,000 square feet now. And that was a game changer cause it really led us grow the business as we needed to. I mean, back in the old shop days, if we needed to cut an aluminum panel sign down, it was.

00:13:44Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: I've, I've [00:13:45] done that. I can't terrible tell you how terrible, how, how many panels that we cut at half on a couple of saw horses out back of the,

00:13:52Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: the old shop. If I had standard operating procedures back then, it would be pretty fun. You like first [00:14:00] run the extension cord, second hit the tall horses third, whatever, you know.

00:14:15 there was so many, like I went to my supplier one time to pick up stuff cause I got a desperate pitch. So I had to drive a couple hours to like go get something and I'm in there and I'm like, what is this?

00:14:30 coming to say, Hey, these are the things you need to do. I just, if you didn't know to ask for it or whatever. And their websites back then, you know, really stunk. Man. I learned a ton just walking through that warehouse.

00:14:45 whenever I found out about ACM panel by just seeing it, I'm like, I need this. What is, you know? Yeah. So, man, I wish someone would've taught me along the way, but figured out there are things that we know now, right?

00:15:00 we're in Lufkin, uh, Lufkin's, about a 50,000 people town. We're surrounded by the, in the county, a lot more little cities around us. So we got about a hundred thousand people in our one hour reach, uh, which has helped us to grow, I think, in a town our size.

00:15:15 one thing that we've had to do is we've kind of grew on what I say, sideways in our abilities to do more for our customers because there's not a lot of people. Are doing all these different things. So if they can come to one shop, get more things done, I think that's helped us to survive and grow through these [00:15:30] years.

00:15:45 December.

00:16:00 basically we've become a pain point, like t-shirts for instance, we would outsource seeing one guy down the street, uh, did a good job.

00:16:15 in my brother's garage. Um, eventually built a little. Affordable building shop behind our office and that roughed us through a few more years until we were able to move into the building right now.

00:16:30 have two 20 power to add any, like the latex printers we wanted, you know, we didn't have space for it anyway. You know, laminator had to be done elsewhere. I mean, it's just a lot of pain points installs.

00:16:45 And so we just had to do a lot of flexing to make things work and took a lot of energy to do simple task. We got this build bigger building. A lot of those things became more routine and that to start growing and scaling up little bit better.

00:17:00 talk to us about

00:17:01Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: what, give us the, the whole scope of what you guys offer, what you guys offer in house, because you guys do. Like, out of every shop that I've talked to, you guys might do the [00:17:15] most stuff in-house that I've ever

00:17:16Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: seen. So when you walk in, we've got front sales team.

00:17:30 We have an apparel department running embroidery, sublimation, uh, D T G and screen printing. We've got a full small format print shop.

00:17:45 notepads, envelope printing, we do a lot of mailers, um, direct mail stuff. So we're preparing it, sending it straight to the post office. I postcards all those great things in. Does everybody

00:17:54Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: still do NCR forms in Texas?

00:17:56Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: Man, they're running like seriously? No, like right now [00:18:00] they're running numbered NCR forms and it's a big long run of so many thousand. And so they're like, don't, don't stop anything. It's just they don't wanna interrupt the numbering. So those are still running hot right now. Uh, that used to be bread and butter for

00:18:13Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: us on some of the, like the local [00:18:15] businesses, like especially like the service businesses, like the plumbers or the Yeah man contractors.

00:18:29Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: Hey, we can even [00:18:30] bite it in a booklet for you, man. We can do just, we Gotcha. So yeah, stuff like that. The print shop's super great and versatile, you know, all the way down to like threaten.

00:18:45 versatile on that. Our signage department's pretty wide in signage. We have the vehicle wraps, decals, vehicle wraps for vehicles, signed production items like yard signs and banners and those types of things.

00:19:00 cabinets, installing channel letter sets, doing installs for, uh, electrical signs. Um, we've finally actually done a couple, uh, digital board signs. That was something we've been growing into the last few years. And so, um, but yeah, so pretty versatile little shop.

00:19:15 engraver, flatbed printers, uh, laminators. We had 10 foot wide roll printers and do more banners in house. We got a couple latex printers to keep the vinyl getting printed and wraps and stuff like that. So, versatile shop, we're not the biggest. We're not, I mean, I love [00:19:30] seeing some of the bigger ones that just are running all these flatbeds and running, you know, just all this.

00:19:37Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: kind. There's, there's hardly anything you guys couldn't produce in.

00:19:40Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: So we do love that 85 to 95%, depending on the month, [00:19:45] is done in house. So very few like fabric display stuff. We, you know, we outsource that. Probably'll always outsource that. You know, every now and then there's some unique printing products of like foil printing, um, some things like, uh, specialty, you know, laminations of paper products.

00:20:00 those jobs. But yeah, we love being able to kind of keep a, a hold on all the quality, the pricing, the stuff, but the downside, and I mean, Peter, you, you could definitely go off of this one for me, but is all the headaches that come with that, you know what I mean? I've heard you guys [00:20:15] comment about some of the beauty of sending some things out, let someone else do it, focus on what they're good at, you know, but kinda been in that struggle.

00:20:30 know, it just seems like everything's always outta rush. You know what I mean? Like the Christmas parade, we know it's coming in December every year, but all week has been, could you print me the, you know, and it's like, so to have those abilities in house, it is awesome to be able to come through with customers and, [00:20:45] and it's not a big deal to like, Hey, you know what, what's six more sheets of quarter running on that printer today?

00:21:00 gray hair from. Keeping all those things going and there's not three pieces of equipment that could break down today. There's 20, you know, so there's so many more things that could go wrong and, and problems to overcome.

00:21:13Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: that's, um, that last [00:21:15] minute deal. I don't, I don't think that's a Lufkin problem. No, just, I just tell

00:21:19Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: you, I think that's why the sign shop groups have been such good therapy this last year is just like, okay, you know, and I'm not the only one or we've done that too. And so it's [00:21:30] been kinda good to hear some other guys' stories and and relate.

00:21:33Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. Especially in the industry that's pr you know, traditionally kind of closed off, you know, that's, that's where we're having a lot of fun with this on the, the podcast and the group and everything. I know Peter and I and Michael, [00:21:45] like this has been, yeah, probably the highlight of my sign career, I would say.

00:21:54Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: But, and I love that the signage community seems to be a lot more opening and helping and. Probably plenty [00:22:00] critical, but maybe a little supportive. But like apparel side, like, I don't think screen printers, like, they don't share tips as much.

00:22:15 but

00:22:15Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: you wanna know why I, I have a theory on this and I actually believe you. Uh, not only I believe you, I agree with you and you're in the screen printing business, which I came from Bryant's part of, you know, you, you, you dabbled in it as well.

00:22:30 ways to skin this cat, right? You have to burn screens, you have to get a silk screen machine. You have to dry it. If you can't figure it out, you shouldn't be in the business, right? From a design perspective, setting up your [00:22:45] processes, setting up your, your, your spot colors, burning those screens, it's all the same.

00:23:00 about how to set up your shop and compete with me. Yeah. Right?

00:23:04Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: Yeah, because it's the same,

00:23:05Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: becau uh, I'll take this from a pricing course. It's the same unit of work, right?

00:23:11Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: the same medium every time. You know, like it's, yeah, yeah. It's, it's [00:23:15] kind of freeing because hey, you know, you're printing on a garment and depending on your pallet size, it's like, Hey, we're not gonna do anything other than like 12 by 16 or 14 by 20 or something on a a t-shirt or a bag or a [00:23:30] hoodie.

00:23:45 wise, it's.

00:23:46Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: It's, I could buy, I could buy the shirts from the same place. I can buy my ink from the same place.

00:24:00 shirt for a customer to pay, uh, a price That's probably pretty consistent in almost every market. Mm-hmm. . Right? True. I could buy the shirts the same place, I could get the ink from the same place.

00:24:15 that there isn't a lot of help in that industry because it's very consistent. Learn it, watch a YouTube video. Almost everybody does it the same way in the sign business and everybody here knows this, but so I might be stating the obvious, but there [00:24:30] are so many ways to skin a cat.

00:24:45 factor. So there's a lot more moving parts in this business. And, and before we kind of dump, jump into it here, Chris, I, I, I kind of wanna go back to the beginning part of this conversation, if we may.

00:25:00 What businesses other than this one do you own and how do you afford that time to do

00:25:06Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: it all? Working on the time part sign business was the main thing. Got going. I've always thought the storage unit business was interesting.

00:25:15 so when a customer came in as. 2011, 12, somewhere in that range. And, uh, was talking to my wife about some si a logo and some signage for the sign, bus, uh, storage business. They were gonna start up, bought a property, blah, blah, blah. That wasn't [00:25:30] existing business, but he was gonna make it a go. And, um, so she made the comment to him, like my husband's always mentioned, he wanted to do storage business.

00:25:45 I, I found something else I wanna do instead. I think I just wanna get out from underneath this property. Would y'all be interested?

00:26:00 that, turned it into storage unit business. It's been good for us and a good diverse option, you know, to have along the way. And then, um, I bought the building that we used to be, uh, rent from.

00:26:15 and, and, and rent out. It stays nice and rented. Uh, some to some great businesses. Bought an ice house in 2020. You know, the vending machine, ice houses. Um,

00:26:23Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: how much paper do you have, Pete?

00:26:27Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: What I'm trying, I'm trying, [00:26:30] I've got a lot of

00:26:31Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: goats. I'm like, wow, this guy went to storage unit. I'm like, okay, let's keep going about that. Let's do some research

00:26:36Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: there. So the, the ice house, and I didn't even know this was a thing. Yeah. They don't have this in, they're

00:26:43Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: not your area. Yeah.

00:26:45 like a free standing, you know, 10 by probably 20 little building structure that basically has a big ice machine in there and a big bin and it dispenses bags of ice out. So it's an ice vending machine. Um, I always thought they were cool. Made a comment to a local [00:27:00] guy about like, Hey, do you own the machine on your property?

00:27:15 And I was a sucker and jumped in. I thought it would be a great, you know, again, a diverse option to jump into.

00:27:30 area. Um, and that was really good. It went for a while, I think, till 2017. Um, so I tried, I've tried several things that didn't really take off and do much, but, but yeah, as far as businesses, we still got, um, the storage unit business is, is, is good.

00:27:45 house is up and down depending how things are rolling. We love Hot Summers and we sell a lot of ice during the summer. Let's see, let's see. That's not that bad. Now I bought some businesses along the way, and merged in. I was, wait, I was waiting, dude. So before, I was [00:28:00] always thinking why would someone buy an existing business when you could start it?

00:28:15 really great fit until it was 2015. I made a little goal list and like one of the biggest items on there, and a big pain point we had was em embroidery.

00:28:30 again, the orders were getting bigger, more frequent. I didn't have control on pricing, turnaround times, quantity, uh, quality, uh, was good. But so I just didn't have any control, any of that.

00:28:45 a phone call early 2016, mid 2016 from a girl and she's like, Hey, I'm calling you about two things. One, my boss has an embroidery business and he's wanting to retire and sell. Um, and two, I'm gonna be looking for a job soon, wondering if you'd have any work for me.

00:29:00 it was a, a great deal that fell into place. The guy had the thema embroidered machines that I was researching and looking into. He hadn't started the process of, um, large format sublimation for like sport jerseys. So kinda had that going a little bit as a [00:29:15] side thing he was trying to go to, but just kinda was done it for 20 years more and was just ready to retire.

00:29:30 building until he got a bigger one a year later, and it just really worked out great. Another thing that came along the way was in 2017, we had outsourced to this other local print shop for years.

00:29:45 uh, just like unique projects that could always send that eastex printing. So, and we had talked about buying that shop for a couple years and it just never made sense. We didn't have the space. It, the overhead, having a second location was a big thing to get overcome.

00:30:00 now we had plenty of space at that time. Like we didn't know how we were gonna fill it. And when the owner came over and we were just chatting, I was showing him the new space little tour, he's like, man, you gotta buy the print shop. You could put it in this part of the building and you know, so he kinda opened my eyes to that.

00:30:15 right. We could . And so we kinda worked the deal in a few months and we bought that business. He came to work with us, the whole team. We basically downsized it from a 5,000 square foot building. They were in to our 3,500 square foot area we had for it. And it was great. And [00:30:30] so again, it just fell into place again.

00:30:45 who's doing your t-shirts? We'd love to do that, uh, websites. And we were able to pick up other types of jobs from those, those current customers.

00:31:00 Engraving to a girl did a good job. But again, we just didn't have that control. We were able to hire her and buy her business and equipment, kind of bring it under the same roof, and that helped us again, go from just doing some embroidery jobs every month to just, we're constantly running at a [00:31:15] machine.

00:31:30 following and what, what you're getting.

00:31:45

00:31:45Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: here, we're, yeah, you've built like a miniature empire, I will say miniature, like you, you, I mean, I'm proud of, they basically own the, it's not, you own the town of Lufkin, Texas.

00:31:57Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: No, sir. If there's any Lufkin nights listening, [00:32:00] they're, they're laughing right now. Like, what the crap are you talking about? ? But, but I am, I, I do wanna, like, I am proud of the progress and it's because of this great team members that's come along, you know, like, I don't know hardly anything about the prep shop, but there's two great people over there that know it in [00:32:15] and out, you know, embroidery.

00:32:30 really good at.

00:32:36Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: key. Yeah. So obviously the topic is, uh, and, and you've seen this in some of the mastermind calls and some of the, the sign shop community for, [00:32:45] for owners that we've got, but a, a lot of people are in similar positions where they're not in a major market.

00:33:00 But , nevertheless, there's a, a lot of shop owners that are in the, in a similar situation where, Hey, we're not in a major market. There's I, you know, small-ish towns I'll, I'll say, [00:33:15] and there could be local competition or competition from out of town, but a lot of it there is just like, how do I, how do I capture more of the market or expand and, you know, so how do I grow in a small town?

00:33:30 that your competitive advantage is like? Like why would customer, why are customers working with you guys? Because I, I feel like that's the, like the, the crux of the issue for

00:33:40Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: me. Right. No, I, I, I think really one thing that got us off on the right foot was [00:33:45] just a strong creative team.

00:34:00 creative part. So I think having the creativity right is good.

00:34:15 that way, it just happened. But I think getting that design right and standing out with a great design was a big deal.

00:34:30 know? Yeah. We got involved with the Chamber and other resources that are in place, but I think just jumping in like, like this weekend is the lighting of Rudolph.

00:34:45 lighting of Rudolph. Okay. Lot of timber in our. Hold on. I'm gonna tell you this is unique and crazy and I wish I had something here to show you. So another big industry is Lufkin Industries here, an old, old hundred year company and they make [00:35:00] oil pumping units.

00:35:15 ru Rudolph the oil field pumping unit. And so it's a tradition in Lufkin of this. Um, this is great.

00:35:30 embracing the community, we're setting up a tent next to it. We're giving away. Check this Free kid tattoos, temporary tattoos that say, have a Lufkin Christmas. We are, uh, we, we designed a custom, uh, coloring book and it's like, I think [00:35:45] again, the same title of like The Great Lufkin Christmas or some kind of cool title like that.

00:36:00 'em that. And then we got these, um, crayon boxes printed with our logo on it.

00:36:15 community, you know, it's not just a company. I think it just, it, it really helps a lot.

00:36:30 order. They're coming in to talk about their design with Zach because man, he, he did that logo and it's just been so great.

00:36:45 we've done other little things that's come along the way. I remember a long time ago there was a big deal, it was kinda silly, but something about in God we trust stickers run all the police vehicles in our area.

00:37:00 vinyl on the cars, you know? So we heard about it and so we just said, we'll put vinyl on the police cars for you and we won't charge you. It's no big deal. We can donate that. And so it was a big deal and we made stickers and then people were coming saying, Hey, can I get a another one of those in God?

00:37:15 trust stickers for my personal vehicle. And we made them like crazy one year and it was just, You know, just kinda serving the community and something relevant at the time. And it was really cool for us because we made a lot of connections throughout that, uh, as well. So I think just being open to what's going on and [00:37:30] jumping in where you can and giving back is gonna go a long way.

00:37:33Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold this up. I'm not sure if you guys can read it. It says luck. Like I, I heard you talking about all the, the businesses that you bought, right. And I, I don't, I don't remember where. Heard this [00:37:45] idea of like your luck surface area, maybe on a podcast, maybe some book that I read, but like, it's good to think about luck as not like luck.

00:38:00 out there. And when you do that, when you participate in your community, you're increasing that luck surface area. So if I've got more surface area that we cover, oh hey, lightning can strike here or there, here or [00:38:15] there, and like listening to you talk about all these different businesses that you bought and it's just like, oh, it just happened to do this.

00:38:30 I walked in at the perfect time. You know? And that's looking back at it. Maybe it seems that way, but to me, like listening to you talk, like I, I'm seeing a pattern. Not sure if you're seeing the same kind of pattern, Pete, where it's like, hey, we run into [00:38:45] a challenge or like, Hey, we, we outsource the product.

00:39:00 the fold. And that's, it seems like that's the, the strategy that you guys have employed

00:39:05Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: successfully. Yeah. Appreciate you saying that.

00:39:15 real graphics did. But like, dude, we've busted it and we put in the time. And so I think maybe that hard work kinda aligns with opportunity and that's where that intersection of luck comes in.

00:39:30 it's, it's worked out. Free kid

00:39:31Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: tattoos. I love it, man. The, the, what is it? Rudolph the light, the Rudolph, the oil field.

00:39:39Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: It's really like Rudolph, the Pumping unit. Um, pumping unit. Okay. Yeah. But the pumping unit is like an oil [00:39:45] filled type product thing.

00:40:00 hard and like if, if they're sick or there's something goes on, like there's so much that doesn't get done because of that.

00:40:15 they're out, there's another person to help. Is it a Boy Scout thing or an an Army military thing of one is none. Two is one or something like that.

00:40:30 out, you're in trouble. And that's one thing that we're constantly facing and still facing now, is just what happens when that one person leaves and they knew this much stuff that no one else knew, it could put you in a bind.

00:40:45 I just hope time shop owners can try to start investing in their team and building 'em up and getting the right people in places because you need 'em. You really do. You're not gonna be able to keep up with everything forever.

00:40:55Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: transition like for you? Because, you know, now I know you're still, [00:41:00] you're, you're still very involved in the business and the community, but you're. You know, like if, if you take two or three days off, I, I'm assuming things run just fine. Like it's, it's, yeah. Not the end of the world. And I know that's, that's a different case for a lot [00:41:15] of sign shop owners that are, are in small towns.

00:41:30 hey, my wife and kids are at home sick and I've gotta be there to take care of them.

00:41:45 the business? Were you kind of like, Hey, I gotta make this, and you know, what were some of the pain points that you had as you went through it? Pl

00:41:51Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: please don't think I got this figured out, but I don't think I've got, I'm kind of a control person, but I don't think I'm terrible on.[00:42:00]

00:42:15 empowering and letting other people do things that, you know, I think maybe, oh, I could probably do that better, but hey, I need you to learn and grow in that area.

00:42:30 founder or, or even the leader of a company. And man, it kinda led to some burnout for me in 2020. Just started really struggling with different things. In a different way, you know, where it was just, it was really wearing on me in 2021.

00:42:45 points of just like, man, I gotta make some changes. Because there was a lot of those things where that custom quote is waiting on me, that special project that I, I'm gonna have to figure some out, you know, is waiting on me. And it was just always that if I don't get this done, it's not getting done.

00:43:00 that would bottleneck at me. And so I again just reached out to some team members and like, man, I need some help and I need y'all to kind of carry. And my operations manager now just really stepped up to help. That was like the lifesaver of it because then now I don't have [00:43:15] the same feeling of.

00:43:30 same and we're gonna be fine. And so I kind of did an analogy talk with the team about, you know, we built from just this little one man boat, you know, where we could scoot along and get things done.

00:43:45 get them to grow. And then we kind of got to be a little bigger ship, needed more team members involved. And then I told 'em like, now we're, we're more of a bigger vessel that we need apartments, we need someone in the engine room.

00:44:00 wheel. You know, keep, keep us, you know, afloat is what we kinda, the term we used a lot during that covid season. And I was, I told him, I was like, well, I'm tired of just keep it afloat.

00:44:15 we're growing forward. I don't wanna be afloat anymore.

00:44:17Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Maybe, maybe that's the episode title

00:44:19Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: right there. Well, it's just been the truth of like, where I was and like, I think a lot of the team was just like, you know, I don't wanna have the same struggles month after month, and so let's make changes to, to, to be [00:44:30] growing for, I can't stop saying it.

00:44:45 processes and things in place that we need to be a, a more of a firm solid foundation.

00:45:00 just been a new chapter for us. We're not outta the woods. We are still post covid struggles and every month has got different challenges, so it is not free sailing at all.

00:45:15 was struggle, you know, it was tough. Like putting your hand on the door to walk into work was just like something, I didn't realize what it was, but it was anxiety of just like, oh, I dunno what's about me? I don't, you know, I had a great morning.

00:45:30 and team was really load out and it's been a different world for me now. Alright, so let,

00:45:37Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: let, let, let's kind of take that and run with it here. You know, we got a lot of listeners out there that are going to love your story and love how you got [00:45:45] started, but now that you're, you're seasoned, right?

00:46:00 helped you with, so I don't know, but what processes have you put in place for your shop, for your shop size that our listeners might be able to

00:46:08Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: get benefit from?

00:46:15 take to be more solid. I'm not the best implementer, I'm not the best at carrying things out. Bryant has come along as a consultant, but also as a doer and put some things in place for us and things in shop box. That's been really helpful.

00:46:30 him on like, okay, this is a problem. We're getting wrong a lot. What's gonna be a better flow for that? But I will say a struggle just honestly has been just the overwhelming wideness. And again, I think of a lot of this because this, the wideness of our shop abilities, because it's like, I feel like [00:46:45] every department needs so much attention and I have felt like my attention and my energies have been spread by like what problems the loudest today.

00:47:00 on to this area. Um, so I'm trying to do that. Bryant has helped me, like we've jumped in and tackled a lot of apparel products in Shop box that were just wonky and kind of, you know, and we focus like, hey, let's get these five really main products we use and let's get them really good so my sales reps are smoother, production will get better [00:47:15] information and so on.

00:47:30 I constantly feel like I get pulled to, okay, now paper printing prices are a problem and paper's outta stock and prices keep shooting up.

00:47:45 master, that's something I'm trying to work on.

00:47:47Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, it's almost like the one stop shop approach is kind of like a double edged sword. It's, it's like, hey, it's great for growth because, and, and we went through this same thing in our shop.

00:48:00 printing, we did large format, we did signs, we did screen printing, we did embroidery, we did wraps. You know, we did it all. A lot of it we did under one roof. A lot of it we would outsource. You know, our mix was different. It was probably [00:48:15] like 60 40, 70 30, you know, 70% in-house, 60% in-house.

00:48:30 Especially in, you know, even, even at 25 employees, that's, you know, if you've got five, six different departments, that's, you know, it's still not a lot per department to run essentially what's its own business [00:48:45] unit.

00:48:46Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: I will say like with team wise, I mean the goal would be to be real cross trained, so that way if this person's out sick, hey, we can pull this person from this department to help fill in. We haven't mastered that, but we, we try to let people train in all departments just to get an [00:49:00] idea so that if they needed to fill in it would be an option.

00:49:15 then sales reps, there's usually about three to four primary sales reps and then designers about five or six.

00:49:30 team. So sign production stuff, yard signs and banners. There's mainly two people that are keeping those things going. So if one's out, there's another, but if you need a third set of hands, we got to rob from somewhere to help.

00:49:45 place, uh, one thing if I could do it different and if I would've known that, hey, this is how we're gonna look like in five or 10 years, I think laying a foundation of those procedures and processes and, and, and a training structure.

00:50:00 standard, you know, cause right now if we get a new person, our training isn't, isn't very structured. So they get trained this month differently than someone got trained nine months ago. You know, just because of the work on on hand or what's going on.

00:50:15 again, getting more firm things at place on a, like a foundational level would really help us a lot better. And I,

00:50:21Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: but I feel like that's always a, a tough one though because it's like changes. Yeah. Yeah. It changes and it's, it's very

00:50:28Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: fluid. New machine, new [00:50:30] process.

00:50:45 just, there's always those tweaks along the way that it's like you didn't get the memo.

00:51:00 of training, you know, from the sales rep taking an order in a certain way. You know, if they would've been trained a little bit deeper to understand our routing abilities or to understand, you know, know that PVC sign doesn't weather outside.

00:51:15 laminated Coroplast, and I'm like, why are we laminating cor sign? You know? But like, well the customer, you know, we were talking and, and I told 'em the lamination, you know, protects from scratches and that way their, their, their yard sign doesn't get lam, uh, scratched [00:51:30] like, oh gosh.

00:51:45 were just getting the order done. It said it and said it on the order sheet.

00:51:51Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. So going back to like Pete's question about like the process changes, like, like what, like what's one change that you guys, like, [00:52:00] one specific change that you've made? Like I, I don't want to hear the stuff that we've worked on together because that's boring. I mean, it's, it is cool, but it's, you know, it's boring for the context of this one.

00:52:15 like a big impact for you on the business or, you know, as an owner that you guys have done over the last year or two. I'll

00:52:21Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: tell you, I've struggled with nailing that question with a great answer. But another thing that's another work in is trying to create a little bit of levels of [00:52:30] leadership because for a while it was me and then a lot of team members, and then we kind of did have a couple department leads, um, that could kind of help take on some stuff.

00:52:45 these good leaders in place at different levels so that way they're your go-to. So when you know when a production team member has a struggle with this, they know, Hey, lemme go talk to this person. Okay, we're still having a problem, then let's go to this manager.

00:53:00 me. And now that would be Melissa. And then Melissa, if there's still a problem that they haven't overcome or we need a special troubleshoot, hey, I'm happy to get involved and help. But that has helped a lot because my day. Hijacked, you know, and I know a lot of owners have to relate to, you had a plan to something you were about [00:53:15] to do for the next two hours, and, and that's out the window because you're, you're trying to fix a printer or something else.

00:53:30 to do that. I think another thing goes to proper delegation, you know, because like a guy told me a really great acronym for delegation, and I just, I've loved it.

00:53:45 gonna say, go and do this. Exactly. Then there's gonna be another one where it's like, what do you think we should do? Okay, that's a good one.

00:54:00 best and let me know how it turns out. And then there's that final level of, go figure it out. I trust you. You got it. Don't even tell me how it turns out cause I know you're gonna take care of it.

00:54:15 grow at all. You're, you know, they're not gonna grow the next time that problem comes up, it's coming right back to you again. So if you could start working with that team member as far as with those different levels and building trust and confidence in them.

00:54:30 Or I didn't wanna mess that up. And I'm like, you know what? I'd rather you mess that up and let's figure something out so that way next time you're that much more prepared.

00:54:45 I'm not with so many service level things that. You should have been able to figure that out on your own. I'm building them up in confidence and they know that, you know, and then they might report back, Hey, I did try this.

00:55:00 figured it out. Glad that printer's back going, glad that customer's happy with the fix or whatever it be. I think that's good because I do think just knowing a lot, some other sign shop owners, they make that final decision every day.

00:55:13Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. I, I love that. Four levels of [00:55:15] delegation thing. I've, I've not heard it phrased like that, but yeah, it definitely resonates with me a hundred percent. Yeah. Like, Hey, you've got, hey, like when somebody starts out, There, you don't give them a lot of leeway or mm-hmm.

00:55:30 jump in at like a different level of that. You know, like, hey, your operations manager's coming in at like, Hey, you, you've already done something similar in a different position. Like, now you're gonna step in and I'm gonna hand some of the reins off to you. But, you know, I still [00:55:45] have to make sure we're effectively communicating and a kind of high level strategy stuff.

00:55:52Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: that, well, here's another thought too though that I think I've been guilty of, and I, I try to consciously not do it, is kinda like, jump [00:56:00] your ranks as far as me going to a, a production team member and tell 'em to do something one way when maybe someone else had already said, you know what I mean?

00:56:15 talk to Melissa about this? Okay, go see what she thinks. If y'all need help, come, lemme know. You know? And keeping that order in place is, is very healthy because we've had that happen where team member wants to just jump straight to me and then gotta kinda reiterate, well, cool.

00:56:30 with the department lead? Then y'all go talk about it. I bet you could figure that out. If not, let Melissa know. I bet she could. You know what I mean? And just keeping that in check and kind of training the team to, to lean on one another I think would be. I really think good thing to get, get down in [00:56:45] that process of delegation.

00:57:00 tell me something different anyway, you know, so try not to make those mistakes.

00:57:10Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: lot of self-awareness to, to catch yourself doing that. I, I mean, I, I'm guilty of it in the [00:57:15] past as well, like, hey, like, oh, I'm gonna jump in and, oh, I'm gonna take this one.

00:57:20Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: I got it. Yeah. So I try not to, so, yeah. Anyway, so any sign shop owners, man, try to get outta that daily stuff as quick as you can. Not because you're, you wanna avoid it, but just because then you [00:57:30] can focus on those bigger picture things, you can make sure that we're firing in on all cylinders and everybody's supported and good because if I'm just.

00:57:45 and should and or you're gonna be like me. And I think for million and years, I just neglected a lot of the foundational things I needed in place, you know, so we probably could be a lot healthier as a company than we are now, but a lot of things we're kinda loosey goosey and just winging it along the way.

00:58:00 thing that Brian, you helped get in place in 2019 was the connection to the Sprint CFO guys, uh, Tyler and Brian. Like, man, that was a game changer for us because I had an accountant. Yeah, my taxes were good and my books were somewhat balanced, but these guys came in and started dialing [00:58:15] in my margins and my departs and, you know, where's my labor cost going?

00:58:25Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, that's a big, um, that's, that's one that I've, I've talked to a lot of shop owners about is [00:58:30] like, you think that a, like your typical CPA accountant, Like, they just wanna do your taxes, honestly. Like, Hey, I just want to make sure you're compliant with the government.

00:58:45 and, and I was guilty of this too, when I started my own business, was my accountant's gonna be involved and give me advice on what I should do here? Should I buy that equipment? Or, you know, what, what are we gonna project sales at for next year?

00:59:00 somebody? And that's a really, like, that's not the job of an accountant.

00:59:04Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: No. If you find that. Wow. Yeah. Cause you're right. I would've loved to have that along the years. Like that would've been great. No. Yeah. Yeah. So definitely club

00:59:14Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: for [00:59:15] those guys.

00:59:15Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: We'll, so those team members. Yeah. That Tyler's link in the, the shoes man, that, that's been a game changer.

00:59:30 They were helping me notice things, and they had also identified problems as far as just even in our bookkeeping of this, margin's not right if you're selling it for this and your labor's, you know, and we found some things outta place and fixed it.

00:59:45 It, it seems

00:59:46Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: you don't have any problem whatsoever, like, or any ego in like, Hey, somebody else is, can figure this out. And like, letting that, giving that person the space to do it. Like you said, youve done that with your team, [01:00:00] your operations manager with Tyler and the guys at print, c f o.

01:00:15 you've developed like.

01:00:16Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: Let's call that a muscle. That's a good way to put it. Cause yeah, I mean everyone has that.

01:00:30 and someone could have a little ego as far as like, that's not the way I showed you to do it, but to be open to see like, Hey, you know what, that does make sense.

01:00:45 once. So if they have the idea, Chris would do it like this and they can evolve and make it better. That's, that's awesome. Another quote that I've heard my pastor say and I love is like, you produce what you reiterate.

01:01:00 deserve what you tolerate. And that's been so. So when we find a team member doing something right, let's praise that. Let's encourage that. Let's celebrate that. Hey, that is exactly how we wanna do it. You know, let's produce what we reiterate. Let's reiterate the important things.

01:01:15 Hey, because our customer matters. We do not wanna let this go out. Or because this might be a problem, let's go ahead and run that by the customer. Let's not surprise them with the change or you know, whatever it be. You can reiterate those things so that way our team knows to make the right decision in that right way.

01:01:30 right, whenever it's like, what were they thinking? Usually we could look at that situation and say, you know what? We kind of deserve it because we've tolerated this for so long. When that happens or that attitude comes out, it's because we've let it get sloppy, that area. And so I've also kind of [01:01:45] embraced that little saying and, and, and tried to use that to again, The team.

01:02:00 for them to dial in. And I've heard you guys talk about this on a recent podcast, and I think that's really importantly, including your team members in and the decisions, Hey, why do you guys think this was a problem?

01:02:15 also shows that they are valuable. And from there, you're probably gonna get some really good ideas to move forward. So creating those opportunities. And then also we try to create opportunities in our pay scale.

01:02:30 uh, production bonus on as they work. I didn't, I didn't

01:02:33Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: have this in my notes, but I'm glad you brought it up because I, I, I, it's not the norm. I, I definitely wanna dive into

01:02:39Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: it. Well, it. There was another company in town that is amazing and we, we work for them a [01:02:45] lot, but also glean really great ideas from them.

01:03:00 could, you know, generate more income.

01:03:15 So if we have a call back, we have a problem.

01:03:30 if everything went great, customer's happy, we hit the deadline.

01:03:45 bo they bonus off the same amount. Uh, sales reps, the order, the reason they wanna crank those orders in and make sure they're going through production smoothly and correctly is because they get a percentage on all the orders that they put through shop box, things like that.

01:04:00 in place with the hopes that our team would have opportunity to, you know, their paycheck could reflect the hard work they're putting in. And they would also feel a little pain of like, man, we messed up in that big shirt order. I didn't make a bonus off that because we had to reprint or we had to fix or discount, whatever.

01:04:15 that's something I hope to grow again. What is we, we launched it in January, 2020. January, 2020 was one of our best months. February was one of our second best months in March. Everything kind of came crumbling and so we kept that in place. This time, even though profits are not what we [01:04:30] near hoped, it's been more of survival mode since, but we kept it in there because that's just important I think for the team to have a feeling of kinda ownership in their work and their ability.

01:04:45 Um, so don't just come to be here, but. Engage, leave, empty leave knowing, man, I, I gave some quality work today. I poured into this project, or that I brought my skills, my, you know, my creativity or whatever their role is.

01:05:00 feel proud of what they leave and proud when they see that sign on the wall or the truck driving down the road or whatever it be, you know, like, and so anyway, we wanna try to celebrate those things with them and create the opportunities that they can learn and grow and like doing what they're doing.

01:05:15 constantly, but, but also like, back to the creating opportunities. We've had several team members move different places. Like, we had one guy that started as a helper right out. He wasn't even outta college, he was on academic probation from college, from slacking around a little bit.

01:05:30 helper, you know, really great hard worker. Then he started working on a production team. Then he was our, kind of our lead sign production guy for a year or two. But he always wanted to be a graphic designer. Uh, that's what he was starting to go to school for. And so we made efforts to move this valuable team member from [01:05:45] one role to a creative role.

01:06:00 things. He had these skills and so we painfully, you know, tried to navigate him away from that and got him in a creative role where he could, you know, use his gifts and talents better.

01:06:15 that role, but they thrive over there and that's good, uh, for them as well. I think that's important. So moving people around I think has been, and again, not everyone can, I mean some people just, I need you there.

01:06:30 them opportunities to, to change it up and do different things and I think that helps keep them engaged and that way it's not just a job, this is opportunity. It's my career. This is, you know, I'm a valuable team member. I'm needed here. And hopefully they could be and do the best.

01:06:44Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: love that approach that [01:06:45] you mentioned career, right? Like a lot of a, like not the owner or manager, but like a lot of the production employees are probably, are, are calling this a, a job in other shops and you're trying to [01:07:00] instill that, hey, there's something bigger than we're working on here and this is a, a career for you guys.

01:07:14Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: well, I [01:07:15] mean, we, I was really enjoying everything that Chris was saying, so I wanted to let him kind of, as I like to say, ramble on a little bit

01:07:30 something that I think is gonna be hard for you to answer, but like, what do you see yours? How, how do you see yourself? In terms of time, like if you had time where, where is your time best used in your life and your businesses right now?[01:07:45]

01:07:45Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: I learned from a, there was a little seminar as that and they, they, it's kinda like personality profiles, but they were talking about different, know your area of strengths and, and running that. And part of that was this visionary and I, they called it something else. It was like a visionary profile and then there was like a [01:08:00] manager operator, someone who implements things.

01:08:15 love coming out with the problem solve of that. You know, Hey, you know what, this is it.

01:08:30 I mean, like, we're gonna say doing what we're doing unless someone cast out this new idea, Hey, what, what if we in five years had this going on?

01:08:45 generally more excited and engaged. Because yeah, I mean like everyone's gonna kinda get dull by doing the same routine. Yeah. Ok. So,

01:08:52Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: so, so you're more of a visionary.

01:09:00 deterrent in the future. Right. Take risks. And the only reason why you could do that and the obvi, it's an obvious statement, but the only reason you could do that is because you're not in your business. You're working on your business.

01:09:15 areas where I'm hearing, and you may not be saying them, Based off of what you've said, I'm making really great assumptions that this is where your expertise lies. As a shop owner, your responsibility is not designing or quoting or selling or even installing or fabricating.

01:09:30 It's more training, guiding consulting, looking for those areas of weakness and then shoring up those inefficiencies. You know, I'm speaking to a, I was speaking to a specific sign shop on new sign shop owner earlier. This. [01:09:45] Who is quite the opposite of you, Chris? I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna mention his name or, or his shop, but he just bought this business from a, from an experienced sign shop owner who is very involved in the system.

01:10:00 He had told me that all of his pricing was listed on laminated sheets. And I'm like, oh dude. Like we need to fix this problem. You know, let me ex, let me introduce you to like a shop management tool. And you know, you have side shop owners out there. Chris let, like, let's not [01:10:15] forget that we all started this way.

01:10:30 blocks, One of the things that always comes back in our conversations is that you have to build the foundation.

01:10:45 gets hired, or hey, if you want to go on a two week vacation, no matter what happens, the engine is always capable of running and that is what people are now building their shops on.

01:11:00 to you, is that you've built this engine, you've, you didn't start this way, right? Mm-hmm. , you, you, you, you said it yourself. You know, you made that first poster for $25 because you said, Hey, yeah, sure I can use an extra couple of bucks. For me hearing your [01:11:15] story, learning a little bit more about how you kind of grew into this, making it.

01:11:30 engine is built and Bryant is helping you supercharge that engine, right? Like you're adding all sorts of tweaks to it because you continue to be involved in the business enough where you can explore those inefficiencies to make that [01:11:45] engine better.

01:12:00 that's marketing, right? So what does a shop do of your size, marketing wise to attract its customers?

01:12:12Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: no, thanks for the recap. I mean, you really did say that, right? And. [01:12:15] You're right.

01:12:15Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: But yeah, you know, you need, every engine needs gasoline, every engine needs gas to run, right? So we look at that in marketing dollars and marketing ideas.

01:12:28Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: business? [01:12:30] So mine's gonna be having a solid pance presence online. A lot of those foundational things are in place, right? But we're not super aggressive there because luckily for so far all the business that we've grown from has come in the front [01:12:45] door, called us or emailed it.

01:13:00 asked them, Hey, we'd love to have your shirt business.

01:13:15 in, which again, I don't want it to sound in the wrong way cause we're super grateful, but like what a blessing to have plenty of work coming in that we've continued to grow every year.

01:13:30 We've ran a billboard just for fun before we have our wrap vehicles that are out there. And that constantly brings us great attention. I mean, I was, I was pumping gas the other day and I got in one of our, I was in one of our work vehicles and it just, The guy just starts chatting to me about his business and all this, and I'm [01:13:45] just thinking like, what other opportunity would come this way if you did not have that wrap vehicle there?

01:14:00 area and relevant. I love it. Whenever I get comments I'm like, man, I saw you guys' truck way out in Jasper yesterday.

01:14:12Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: point, to that point, I always talk [01:14:15] to my, I always talk to my, uh, my consultant, my clients that I consult with, my sign shop owners that I consult with, and I always bring up that story.

01:14:30 Bryan, Dana Antonelli, yeah, thank you. I couldn't recall his name. Dana Antonelli. When we release, I was, I was like, oh man, this is gonna be my jam right here, because I can't wait to think.

01:14:45 father, he says, Pete, you need a billboard. He says, here's a $900 van I found on Craigslist. You should just wrap it. Just wrap it and park it on the side of your building and watch what would happen.

01:15:00 like almost every

01:15:00Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: shot cut vinyl layered up or no? Was it? No, no.

01:15:03Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: It was a real wrap. It was a real wrap. It was a real rap. But before RAPS were like they were today. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like almost every shot does raps now. I still remember the very first rap I've ever done, which was [01:15:15] like, I remember jumping up for joy, like got a rap.

01:15:30 That's a really simple way of just branding yourself, right? Keep a truck parked right outside, maybe park it on the side of a, a building an intersection, a an empty or a deserted parking lot and just keep it there.

01:15:45 there. It's a really simple way of attracting, I wouldn't even say new business, it's just a way of getting the brand out there. Brand awareness, right? Like keeping your brand consistent. They drove past it on Main Street. Now they're driving down Douglasville Road or [01:16:00] whatever you want to call your road on, and now they see your shop.

01:16:15 $500,000 a year in sale that are looking for like added ways of, of really trying to get, you know, the brand out there.

01:16:29Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: You know, [01:16:30] but if you spent, uh, if

01:16:31Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: you spent $900 and did it yourself and wrapped your own vehicle, that's gonna last a lifetime. That's gonna, well, maybe not a lifetime, but you know, it's gonna last a lot longer than a, than a monthly ad and a magazine or, you know, a diner [01:16:45] ad, a billboard for a couple of weeks.

01:16:53Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: are not great.

01:16:54Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: Yeah. You know, maybe there's some digital mar magazines out there that [01:17:00] want your advertising, but they suck. You know? So where, where is your money best? You, best being spent? You know, I mean, for, for us, season sign Shop guys, we've advertised everywhere, right?

01:17:15 diner mats, we've done the sponsorship of the little leagues. Yeah. We've done the sponsorships on the Light Up Your Rudolph event. Okay, we're do, we're handing out little things. I remember, I still remember one of my first trade shows, [01:17:30] I routed out over 500 corrugated plastic guitars to hand out, you know, like just to people like, gimme, gimme, gimme.

01:17:45 recognize you and I can't, and I sold franchises that way. So there's so many things that a sign shop owner can do to pour gasoline into their engine. But Chris, I'm bringing this right back to you.

01:18:00 if you could be

01:18:00Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: specific.

01:18:02Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: For those listeners, I mean, I'm gonna ask you a pretty simple question, but be specific. Give them a tip, help them out here. Let's be, let's be really great sign shop owners here and, and pass along some really [01:18:15] great advice for that Next sign.

01:18:30 kind, no. Doesn't matter. How, tell our listeners what happens in your shop? Who answers

01:18:35Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: the lead? How does it get processed?

01:18:38Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: do you turn into an estimate? Walk us through the front end of your process so our listeners can learn a little bit of [01:18:45] something, how to do it in correctly

01:18:46Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: in their shop. Well, figuring things out. But right now, yeah, if you, if if a website order comes in, we've try to be there and, you know, order come in through Facebook or any kind of online deal, it funnels through a couple email accounts we have ready, so that way we know [01:19:00] kind of how it came in.

01:19:15 questions that our sales reps kind of run through.

01:19:30 educated quote.

01:19:45 Hey, this is what you asked for.

01:20:00 in pricing, pass it.

01:20:15 So that's kind of the flow. So hopefully we're fielding that.

01:20:30 it because if not, we're wasting all that.

01:20:45 ask for more work is cause we're still trying to make sure we polish and take care of these customers that are coming in.

01:21:00 reach back out. Hey, how was your experience? I think there's opportunities that we have to do that better that I'd love to see us grow in, but we've gotta receive that well because one of the worst things we get is.

01:21:15 up and surveyed, but they never came back and gave me some options or didn't call me back or whatever. And that's something I don't want people to say about us. So we've gotta do everything we can to. Be one of those that they're telling the shop down the road,

01:21:30 So we're doing our best, but we've been blessed with a lot of work coming in. So yes, I wanna do a good job of fielding it and taking care of them. Awesome

01:21:37Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: man. Thank you so much for that.

01:21:38Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: Appreciate it. Hey, another thing that I've got going on today is a tour, and I don't know how many other shop [01:21:45] sign shop owners open their shops up, but we do several tours a year for like schools to leadership.

01:22:00 come and so we have a talk, we we tour around the shop, they screen for their own t-shirt. Sometimes we'll make a vinyl sticker or something, but like we just open the doors and let them kind of see.

01:22:12Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: more and more people, I wish more and more people did [01:22:15] that. I think that's an excellent thing. I would encourage you to even look beyond. What you're currently doing, just from a recruitment perspective, you know, like kids in school, they remember meeting, you know, the governor, the mayor, , you know, they, that that's what inspires [01:22:30] people in the next generation to be in politics or, or, or in education.

01:22:45 I, I personally, I wish I did that. I, I had, I had not really thought of the idea, but opened houses, Sign, uh, like a sign shop, open house, getting people to touch things, play with things.

01:23:00 anything that you want. You can have them build little ra glow in the dark reindeer if you want, you know, around this time, around this time of the year. I mean, it'd be so cool. I encourage you to really explore that. Even come back to us with like, Hey, how is this doing?

01:23:15 on social media. Get it out there in pr. Like I personally love that, love that I would tell every sign shop to do.

01:23:22Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: And here. Another thing though, the flip side of it is, yeah, it brings a burden to the team. They gotta make sure their areas are clean and things like that. And I ask 'em [01:23:30] all to have something running in all the departments so that way we're cutting something on the table, we're flatbed.

01:23:35Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: gotta prep it. You gotta prep it, right? You gotta make sure

01:23:38Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: dec you point at them and you say, Hey, this is the operator who runs this machine. Tell us about what it [01:23:45] does. Or here, here's the screen printer, tell us how we're gonna screen print our shirt today and let them shine for a minute. And that's a cool thing that they get to like show off, Hey, this is my skill, this is how I know to do,

01:23:55Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: let them use the power washer and clean a screen and you know, let, [01:24:00] let them throw, like start folding shirts.

01:24:15 like mine, that is needed in this business. The youth in the industry needs to know what they can do in this career.

01:24:30 you know, they could be bookkeepers. They could do anything that they want in industry. That is why I love it so much, because you could wear many different hats. You could be a business background, a marketing background, a design background.

01:24:45 manager. You could do anything you want, and the kids, the youth of this generation need to know. So I would, Chris, anybody who's listening out there needs to take your advice and get that done. Start put bringing in your Chamber of Commerces, your networking groups, bring [01:25:00] it all in.

01:25:15 being here, Chris, it was great to hear your story.

01:25:29Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: Thanks for [01:25:30] letting me ramble. I've enjoyed it.

01:25:31Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Oh, man, I, I knew this was gonna be a slam dunk conversation, so I appreciate you joining us, man.

01:25:37Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: Oh, wait, Brian, new like that. Chris guy can talk. He'll fill an hour. Easy man. Hey, hey. [01:25:45]

01:25:45Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Honestly, like you've been, um, a, a great inspiration to me as well and a good friend, and like hearing you like Flex and, and like, not even Flex, but just share some of your experiences. Like, [01:26:00] I, I knew you had all this in you.

01:26:15 know, the takeaway for me is like when you truly enjoy what you're doing and you value what service you're providing is a, a sign shop or a print shop or a wrap shop to your local community like that pays dividends.

01:26:30 you're in a, a small town and you're looking to grow, And you're asking, how can I grow in a small town? You're asking the wrong question. Right? The question is, how can I help my small town grow? Yeah. How can I help the other business owners in my small [01:26:45] town grow their businesses and be more successful?

01:27:00 other sign or print shops that were just there to provide a sign or provide print. Like you guys are actually investing in that small business that's coming to you.

01:27:15 help you put the pieces together. Like, Hey, you may come to us for a banner because you're trying to open a, a new location, but guess what? We've got flyers that we can do for you. Mm-hmm. , like, we're going to give you the whole package.

01:27:30 small shop or a small town? How can you grow your small town? How can you help other business owners in your small town? Chris, that's awesome, Chris. Um, if you guys want to check out Chris and Real graphics, it's real [01:27:45] graphics.com. I, I don't want to flood you with calls, but I know.

01:27:48Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: I enjoyed it. Yeah, it's been a great meeting part of the community and connecting with more and more owners. It's been really encouraging, so it's awesome. And there's this Me Too therapy that's been really helpful, you know, to hear other people talk about things and be like, ah, me too. [01:28:00] I'm not alone, you know?

01:28:08Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Bye guys. Appreciate it. Guys. If you

01:28:10Chris Fleniken: #72b372;">Chris Fleniken: liked this episode, make sure you hit subscribe to get all the latest [01:28:15] episodes and check out our website, better sign shop.com. Get free resources and helpful tools on growing your shop.

01:28:30 listening.